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Zoids Wiki:Archives/Forum:Naming System
From Talk:Berserk Fury: We need a standard naming system. The article for stuff like Sinker and Salamander is using the Japanese names, but now this one is American, and so is the Warshark article... I just think we need a standard.--Azimuth727 19:51, October 23, 2009 (UTC) :I think Japanese names are the easiest to go by, unless they're particularly unfortunate. (My personal nominations for unfortunate would be BF and Merda) Wardick I just think is funny. Though that does raise the question of which name to use overall...and if we use US ones, that sticks us with things like Atak Kat D:. Pointytilly 20:59, October 23, 2009 (UTC) ::To avoid unnecessary subjectivity, How about using the Japanses name by default and then overriding it with the "anime names" since they are easily the most well-known source (obviously excluding Genesis at this point in time). Not to mention that almost all supporting media is horribly inconsistent and/or poorly translated and/or discontinuous. If something has more than one anime name, just use the one that makes the most common sense. Slax01 21:19, October 23, 2009 (UTC) :My reasoning is to use the name that features most in the article. The first line in this article read The Berserk Fury (Berserk Führer in the Japanese release). Which seemed a bit odd if the page was "Berserk Führer". Plus, the name Fury is much more predominant over Führer in the article. For a more general convention, I'd say use the English names unless where consistency is a problem (Sabre Tiger/Zaber Fang for example). Sylvanelite 21:25, October 23, 2009 (UTC) I like the Japanese by default, anime where better-known by that compromise, even if poor Hellrunner is stuck being called...um, well, merda then. Maybe we need a thing in the forum for a votediscussion on possible options? Pointytilly 21:27, October 23, 2009 (UTC) New Discussion: We need to figure out this problem... Voting? Additional Ideas? Personally I like using the Japanese names--Azimuth727 15:08, October 29, 2009 (UTC) :i'd go for the japanese too, unless the kits were developed by hasbro for NAR. --Hollow ichigo 18:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC) ::Makes sense to me--Azimuth727 18:36, October 29, 2009 (UTC) :::I'd say anime names should take precedence. These are the most well-known names. Aside from that, I'm not sure which naming convention is better. Aside from that, I'm not sure which naming convention I prefer. For example the Merda = Marder = Hellrunner. The only problem I have with japanese names, is inconsistent translation (spelling). We should use names that are not prone to Romanisation inconsistencies. Sylvanelite 20:15, October 29, 2009 (UTC) ::::I am very much against using japanse names if there is any noteworthy alternative. I mean what's the point of putting the japanese name in an english wiki? We may as well just google translate the Japanese wiki, because let's face it, Zoids has a BAD record with romanisations. What I'm saying is, we can't rely on their translations being correct. Hence, we should rely on what is popular, and everyone knows the first Zoids anime are the most widely known Zoids media out there. Of course, not everything is included in an anime, and the anime is usually not consistent, but it should take precedence over the japanese names where practical. Slax01 00:52, October 30, 2009 (UTC) i have noticed that the naming is very inconsistant. on the guysack page, i get that no one wants a page with the word "guy sack" as 1 word, but it is its real name (unfortunatly. seriosly were the makers of zoids high when they thought of that? guysack? tisk tisk tisk...)if we wanted to be less "crude" we should have used the NAR spelling. at the very least instead of going renaming them all we should atleast create re-directs that way a person from UK only familiar 2 th UK zoids will find wat he is lookin for--Leon35 01:55, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :what about wardick?! anyway, we should give credit to the japanese since it's their invention anyway (but i agree, some name translations seem somewhat lacking). nothing wrong with berserk fuhrer, except for the special U'' when typing it. most of the original names got censored when they hit the US market because of the public's ''sensitivity. if you say, "but most of the page says berserk fury...", then by all means change it, its just a matter of copy-pasting anyway. most of what they were known when they were released as OJR seems good enough. most of the NJR had NAR''equivalents. most of the kits never reach the anime series... --Hollow ichigo 02:41, October 30, 2009 (UTC) Naming Standards Ok, so take 2 at this? With the character pages that seem to be popping up, there seems to be more and more naming inconsistencies (thanks to many different media being translated differently, or having no official spelling whatsoever). Some examples are Specula® and Karl Shubaltz. This is what I propose, list ambiguous names here with ''short reasons as to where that spelling comes from. If lengthy discussion is needed, do it on the character's discussion page, and put the result here. This is so this page can act as a point of reference for wiki editors, rather than having separate discussions spread through the wiki. Often naming discussions on different pages repeat the same few points on every page. Here is an example, "Brad Hunter" is called Brad in new century DVD, but in Legacy he is called "Ballard". This is just a suggestion, if people want to use it Sylvanelite 08:19, April 11, 2010 (UTC) : To cite "Rudolph Gerhard Zeppelin III" down below, Rudolph says his own name in episode 19 of Chaotic Century, when Rosso and Viola kidnap him. The whole sentence is: "Do you know who you're dealing with? I am Rudolph Gerhard Zeppelin The Third!" However, since it is spoken, there's no way of configuring spelling, so it's still unclear if it's "Rudolph" or "Rudolf." Oh, and "Schubaltz" is favored over "Shubaltz" by Google. FMC (in Japanese) romanizes his name as "Schwarz." In episode 22 of Guardian Force, Thomas' full name appears on screen at one point on a computer's monitor, though it's cut out in the dub. The spelling is "Thomas Richard Schwarz." But obviously, that's Japanese only. In English, the brothers' last name is "Schubaltz/Shubaltz." -Imperial Dragon 11:15, May 25, 2010 (UTC) list of names Brad (anime) :Brad Hunter (New Century DVD) ::Ballad Hunter (Zoids Legacy) Rudolf (anime newspaper) :Rudolph Gerhard(??) Zeppelin III (uncited) ::Rudolph (Zoids Legacy, Royal Mask description) Jack Cisco (Nc0 episode 11 title) :Jack Sisco (Leaderboard in episode 11) Palty (Zoids Legacy) :Party Character Naming priorities Because I've written this out many times, I'm going to list this here. When a character has multiple names, each is given priority on how official it is. An English name is always more official than a Japanese name (this is, after all, an English wiki). From there Zoids Legacy is the next lowest priority. It is known to contain many errors, but it is an official Zoids game, but for characters who appear in it (and nowhere else) Legacy's names should be used. The TV anime releases take highest priority, since they are the most well known. The DVD releases should only be considered if there is variation between the DVD and the TV version. Manga should be lower than the anime, since it is less well-known (was only released in the US, and contains stark differences to the anime). This is the ordering of names: (English) anime :(English) DVD ::(English) Manga :::Zoids Legacy ::::(officially romanised) Japanese name :::::(not romanised) Japanese name I don't know enough of the other english video games to give them weight. I assume they go above Legacy, but below everything else. Feel free to post opinons on the matter. Sylvanelite 06:55, June 5, 2010 (UTC) Some issues: quality of Legacy's translation vs quality of original Japanese text. :When faced with Zoids Legacy, or the Japanese text, it's like picking the lesser of two evils. On one hand, Legacy is officially in english (and the only game to see a worldwide release), but of poor quality. On the other hand, the Japanese text is often given in romanised form, but can include japanese writing style that isn't used in english (such as Decalto Dragon, the 'o' shouldn't be there, like how Zoids in japanese is zoido). Legacy is more widely known when it comes to characters, but models may not abide by this rule, since models from japan are traded overseas. Sylvanelite 23:45, June 5, 2010 (UTC) So when we have two different names, we should use the English one. Understandable, but can we mention the other name in the article. Like how we mentioned Fiona's name is Fine in the Japanese version. (Zoids Fanatic 23:54, June 5, 2010 (UTC)) :Ahh, yes. Good point I forgot to mention. All naming confusion should be put into the article. Like in Reese's case, where the various spellings are at the top. The conventions only really apply to the name of the article, and what editors use throughout the wiki. Sylvanelite 00:12, June 6, 2010 (UTC) Alright, I'll make sure to remember that when I do edits. (Zoids Fanatic 00:24, June 6, 2010 (UTC)) imo, Legacy's names should be out. They're full of actual mistakes, rather than translation differences like Fury/Fuehrer. Palty, Strum (not Sturm, strum, like a guitar) Fury, Gojulass/Pterass as plurals, Riese is male, vertical to sideways, etc. And since I don't think the Sturm was named anywhere else (unless Battle Legends can save the day?), this would result in it being called the Strum Fury here D:. Another case of official fail, imo: Gairyuki -> Gairyuuki Fury. The Fuzors discs have it written out as that—with "Fury". They also get several character names flat out wrong (disagreeing with the actual credits' spelling) and use Japanese terms for things the actual show doesn't (zi-unizon sic instead of fusing/fuzors combine). I'm not sure I want to trust that as a name source as a result. I don't disagree with the overall order, mind, I just think it needs some clearance for discussion of errors/potential problems that come from a single bit of bad source. Tomy's not immune to them either (hi, Rev Rapter). Pointytilly 23:27, June 6, 2010 (UTC) True, Legacy does have many mistakes, but it does seem to be the only option we have ATM, unless anyone can read Japanese full, or TT helps us (which would be surprising). (Zoids Fanatic 00:09, June 7, 2010 (UTC)) :couple things, 1: why is Palty wrong, and not just a translation difference? (what's the alternative?) 2: Gairyuki fury (ignoring the double U) is *potentially* correct in the fuzors timeline (and that timeline alone) because the Gairyuki is built off the Berserk Fury's data- so is named Fury for the same reason the Energy Liger is named "Energy Liger Zero" (and although this is used inconsistently, it need not be incorrect, it may simply be shorthand for instance). Also, in the case of any error, we can disregard them as having an error (zi-unizon, male reese, etc), but if there's only a fansub to compare it to, then why can't it be true that the fansub has an error? that's my only problem with citing a fansub over the only english version. I'm not defending the quality of official translations, but they're by definition better than unofficial ones for use in an encyclopedia, because at least they can be cited. :What I'm saying is that given an error or inconsistency, we can use discretion to pick which one makes more sense in english. We cannot pick one from an unofficial translation from the japanese text, because we have no way of verifying that that translation was of any better quality, no matter how much more sense it makes. If this logic is followed, of the above errors, only "Strum" would stick, which would be regrettable, but is only one error, a small price to pay for maintaining encyclopedic integrity. I mean, can anyone assert that Geno Flame wasn't supposed to be Geno Frame? to use an actual example that did happen on this wiki. If we use unofficial translations when we have a choice, is opening a can of worms I *really* don't want to touch. Check out the massive flame wars that erupted on the "Tales of Phantasia" wiki page if you want to know why. Slax01 00:46, June 7, 2010 (UTC) Here are the problems with not using legacy, basically we end up with Sturm Fury, Strum Fury or Sturm Führer. Going with the first one makes no sense, because it uses some mucked-up half Japanese, half English name (madrunner?Helldra?). The last is the Japanese name, which goes against the naming of the rest of the article (and if you read it, this wiki is very inconsistent with Fury vs Führer, which is the main thing were trying to avoid) If you use the middle, you annoy people who own the model only. I personally think that a consistent English name should be used over an inconsistent Japanese one. But, there is a difference between models and characters. Models can be constructed by non-english speakers, where as Japanese games cannot be played by non-Japanese people. (Region blocking, and the inability to read game menus both are factors). Models should not be considered in the same light as games. As for Palty. I see nothing wrong with that romanisaion. Like what has been mentioned, it's an R/L swap. To the Japanese this spelling makes no difference, but to English speakers, Party means, well, Party (a number of japanese games use english names for their cast, the majority are changed in english releases to make them sound foreign. I see no problem here). And here is the biggest issue with not using Legacy, it means nobody who has played Legacy in english is allowed to edit this wiki. Any edit made by anyone using the English version of Legacy, would have to be cross-referenced with the Japanese version of Saga II before it could be entered. The problems in Legacy are problems in any Zoids media. You mentioned some in Fuzors, but NC0 has them, so does CC/GF. Even the original Japanese has problems (Decalto Dragon, for example) We don't call it Zoido wiki. Indeed, if we could find the correct translations for everyone, there wouldn't be any need to put a disclaimer on the Genesis page. Garaga, Galaga, for example. If we have no way of translating the Japanese correctly, why are we trying to use it? Sylvanelite 00:50, June 7, 2010 (UTC) Actually, the more I think about it the more I think a set of rules, which set apart the types of errors found in the Zoids media, should be established. While I've been thinking of this, I came up with the following list of errors and solutions: 1 Typos (non-deliberate, non-translation-based, errors) *Example: "Reese is a he", "Impeerial" *Identifying: by cross-referencing (in the above examples, by using a picture of Reese from the anime, and a dictionary, respectively) *Solution: Use the one that makes the most sense. :In cases where common sense cannot solve the problem, lay out the proposed name in an argument, cite the conclusion of the argument and use that as the correct version. That way, if someone objects, all they have to do is win the argument to get their version used. 2 Censorship (deliberate changes) *Example: "Van's age as 17 in the dub", "Fury rather than Furher", "Jimmy vs Jamie" *Identifying: by cross-referencing, but with respect to it being a deliberate change. *Solution: Use popularity and consistency as a base. :Jamie is obviously going to be much more well known than Jimmy for the users of this wiki, so that should be used. Listing Van's age as 17, however, is inconsistent across media, and may be confusing to viewers (plus it's only mentioned once, in passing), so there is a reasonable argument as to why 14 should be used. This is different to the below in that it is not automatically preferable over a fantranslation of the japanese version, and in the presence of a reasonable argument, the japanese version can be used. 3 Translations (inconsistencies made as a by-product of translation) *Example: "(pronouncing)Zoid as opposed to Zoido", "down force stabiliser, as opposed to Daunfosusutabiraiza" *Identifying: comparing the Japanese and English versions *Solution: Use an (and any) official translation if possible, with preference to the most consistent and popular versions. :The reasons for this are simple, only official translations are citable. Unofficial translations are highly subjective, and are never guaranteed to be consistent nor reliable. Japanese to English does not have a highly rigid method of conversion. It is very easy to replace an "R" with an "L", or a "t" with an "s", etc. "Razor" and "Laser" are virtually identical (even when using context to establish which is which). Allowing fantranslations makes the wiki to the vulnerable to every set of translation that is conceivable. So long as one anonomous fan believes it to be true, it becomes true, and cannot be refuted. This often creates flame wars, and provided both sides have enough passion, can get very ugly. Resorting to official translations gives one side credit and halts these debates. Given two different official translations, this is very similar to #2, but a fantranslation should never be used. In the case two or more of the above clash, break the problems apart into the three categories and solve via the methods established. tl;dr? *type #1: use whatever makes sense. *type #2: anything goes, provided the choice is made via a reasonable argument. *type #3: English official > Japanese unofficial, regardless of arguments to the contrary. Slax01 06:29, June 7, 2010 (UTC) The way I see it, Party = word, much like every other character in that game has English words for their name. Thus, to me, the Legacy Alster/Palty thing falls under error. I figure Strum is a case of someone trusting their spellcheck too much (and I wager male!Riese is a case of similar Not Paying Attention). Other people might see that differently, though. Re: Gairyu(u)ki, the longer u is in the Japanese name, but long vowels often get dropped in romanizations without it being wrong so much as different conventions. Tokyo, for example, is technically とうきょう Tōkyō, but nobody writes out the long vowels in English. But if English official trumps Japanese, teeeechnically the article should be Gairyu(u)ki Fury. The Fuzors things I'm talking about are in/on the official dub DVDs, not fansubs. There's no Fuzors fansubs yet. (Bonus wtf in Fuzors merchandise: I have a CD that insists on calling BE the "Buster Condor". What the hell...?) I don't want to think about the Genesis romanizations right now. Uuuurgh messy x_o. Pointytilly 07:03, June 7, 2010 (UTC) :To apply my criteria of errors to the above examples; here is my reply: the extra U in Gairyuki is erroneous because the dub does not pronounce it in that manner (~guy-ricki, with no elongation on the ry"u"). Therefore, the two contradict each other and we can use a spelling of Gairyuki that does not emphasise the U. Same as if Genesis were to get a dub and the "o" were to be dropped off "Decalto". Yes this does mean I count "death-troy" as an english version of "destroy", but given that they change that name alot (ie: "attack"), I put it into category #1, a mispronunciation. (Either way, the "fury" add-on is not a mistranslation, nor an error, it is a fuzors-specific plot point, and is not part of the Zoid's name. It's like saying "republican Gojulas", The republic says is who made it, not the name.) Palty, however, has no such reason to be considered incorrect. Not unless there's an english translation that contradicts it first (which may exist, as I am still unaware of where "Party" comes from in the first place). Slax01 09:05, June 7, 2010 (UTC) Woah... we've progressed, it seems! Meh. I don't mean to pick on Legacy, but I agree with Tilly. Though it's true Legacy's translation of some names are fine, others are completely whacked out--or inconsistent. I sure hope we aren't going to call Thomas "Thoma," like they did in that game. And Karl's last name is "Schwarz" in Legacy, which is correct for the Japanese, but I'll bet confusing and inconsistent for English-speakers. Poor Reese and Leviathe are also apparently "male." Yes, Legacy is an official game and such, but that doesn't mean it can never be wrong. I really like Slax's system. When in doubt, I think talking it out (as we are right here, right now) and common sense are the keys to success. By now, we all know there are a LOT of inconsistencies, whether they were mere translation errors, outright mistakes, etc. To address the Fury/Führer, HASBRO changed it to "Berserk Fury" when they released the model kit, right? I say that carries over just to be consistent. The name is "Fury" in English, just as "Blade" is "Blake," "Schwarz" is "Schubaltz," "Jimmi" is "Jamie," etc. To have the "Berserk Fury" article mentioning the "Sturm Führer" could confuse people. (Hitler out of the story, all that "Führer" means auf Deutsch is "Leader." "Sturm Führer" was actually a rank used by the SS. Leads me to the conclusion that the name was changed in English because it might have been offensive to some people.) But this is an English wiki, and we have to appeal to our audience, which are English speakers. It's probably fair (as much as I might disagree personally in some cases) that English names (and/or what's most well-known among English speakers) get priority, because this is an English site. Japanese names or any sort of inconsistencies can be noted in-article. This, I know, has already been done on Reese's and Karl's pages. -Imperial Dragon 11:49, June 7, 2010 (UTC) :In regards to Party being a word. This has two sides to the coin, take the gamecube game Tales of symphonia for example. In the (official romanised) japanese version, there is the character "Genius". In English they changed it to "Genis". Genius was a word in english, so they had to deliberately change it to a non-english word for their release of the game. Hence, it is perfectly reasonable to say that english names get changed to non-english ones. It could be correct to say "Party" was english in Japanese, but it's equally justifiable to say it's incorrect to call her "Party" in the english. Here is the typical example of where two people are both justified in their line of thought. Why not go with the one that lines up with the worldwide release of the game? And this is of course assuming "Party" is how it's spelt in official romanised Japanese. Not fan-translated Japanese characters. :To address to the extra 'u' in Guyruki. Like I mentioned before, then why do we have "Decalto Dragon"? If you admit nobody writes it this way, we should be dropping the "o" from the end. Yet this is not how the Japanese box is packaged. :Fuzors is worse than Legacy. At least Legacy got a worldwide release. Fuzors was cancelled in USA. I don't think anybody would prefer that every Zoid and character unique to these series use their Japanese names? :Finally, people have to remember, we cannot make up names for characters or zoids. We should only use official romanised names (a.k.a never use Japanese characters) at absolute worst. I don't mind which system we end up with, but making up names for any Zoid or character is not on. If the name doesn't appear in official text (at all) then it's a fan name. Every fan is entitled to their own opinion on what a name should be, and like in the geno flame's case, this can cause problems. The example here is that someone suggested the geno flame was an incorrect translation of geno frame. Since the geno flame's only appearance was in Zoids Legacy, there was no way to back up or deny this point. With neither person having anything more than speculation, it was decided to use geno flame, since that's what the game had. For this reason, and this reason alone, I (personally) would prefer to use the english names from any media, no matter how "bad" they are. This includes erroneous Zoids Legacy, Fuzors or whatever. It at least gives a point of reference where otherwise none would be there. japanese names don't help unless they are officially romanised. Which, like I said before, is the problem with Genesis. The characters all have names. But they aren't romanised (they are in characters) so it becomes impossible to pin down one spelling for all editors to use. And if Romanised Japanese is to be considered, I believe Legacy is at least one level above raw japanese romanisation. You can see there are problems in Legcay, but there are bigger problems if we don't use it (as a baseline). Sylvanelite 13:10, June 7, 2010 (UTC) I can see were everyone us coming from. And I do like everyones idea, but is it posable to make a system were we use Legacy as sort of a "starter" informitive in till we find out the other facts? (Zoids Fanatic 14:43, June 7, 2010 (UTC)) The dub VAs aren't pronouncing it "Gairyuki" either. The ryu(u) sound isn't even in English, to be fair, but guy"ricky" is so far removed it's not a good judge of the long vowel. Japanese long vowels don't really change sound like English ones, either, they're just held for another beat, as it were. Pointytilly 19:16, June 7, 2010 (UTC) Urk... if I may: I own FMC, which is a Japanese game, but provides (official!! and for the most part really good!!) romanized names for many of the characters, including some from Genesis. Once again, it is a Japanese game--but is IS official, just like Legacy. And the names are in English. There are some we can't use at all (Prozen goes by his Japanese "Proitzen," for example) but can I offer to help? I don't suggest at all that we "make up" names for characters or the Zoids, but I also disagree with going strictly with Legacy, especially if some of the names are clearly wrong and/or contradict other sources. Japanese long vowel/sounds: whenever things end up translated, more-so than not, I see the extra "u" or "o" or whatever it is dropped. (Example: Sesshoumaru/Sesshomaru/Sesshōmaru from Inuyasha--I think it's "Sesshomaru" everywhere in English. Heck, I think it's spelled that way in all the official art books n'stuff too.) And as far as pronunciation goes, things get slaughtered ''in English dubs. Tilly's right about the Japanese long vowel--it's held for an extra beat, but doesn't change pitch/sound/whatever. But to be fair, the long vowel is very, very important. (It can actually change the meaning of a word depending if you hold the sound or not.) - Imperial Dragon 21:21, June 7, 2010 (UTC) I agree with Imperial Dragon. FMC is offical, and Imperial Dragon can understand it. I do say we use Legacy as a "check mark", but don't go strickly by it. By the way, haven't we already solfided the character names, I mean we have most of the names and articles done, though I have to work on some Genesis characters. (Zoids Fanatic 21:31, June 7, 2010 (UTC)) My final 2c (well, I say final, but who knows), romanisations aren't translations. Translations take into account meaning and context, romanisations don't. Just because its in english on japanese supporting media, doesn't mean its an actual translation. With the subs of Fuzors, it is true that the double-u in ryu is not pronounced in the dub, so the romanisation on the back of the box, which is closer to the translation offered by the dub, should be used. But if an english box for the Gairyuki exists, then that should be used over the japanese one. (I have no idea about the model stuff) Of course, official romanisations are still better than fan-based ones. @Zoids Fanatic, this basically boils down to party vs palty. Slax01 00:00, June 8, 2010 (UTC) B-but we don't call Gairyu(u)ki "Shining Victory Dragon." That's what its name means translated, but it's not used... I don't think there was ever a HASBRO release of the Gairyuki--I believe it was released once by TOMY, then a second time with the Fuzor line as Blake's Gairyuki Shin. I argued the box stuff for the BF as well--Fury over Führer on this site, because that's what the English model kit used. And those boxes are official. Since there's no (to my knowledge) English release of the Gairyuki, then I agree with going with the romanization on the back of the TOMY box. -Imperial Dragon 11:03, June 8, 2010 (UTC) :Hmm... Maybe I need to be more specific about what I mean by translated. Translated means what it ''should be in english. Not what it is in english. This means both romanisations (which don't take into account context) and overly-literal translations (which don't take into account common sense), are not (necessarily) translations. IF a romanisation is later used in something that IS translated (Gairyuki is pronounced that way in english), then it becomes a translation. If fuzors HAD pronounced it, shining victory dragon, then we would be using that as its name, wouldn't we? (the point about romanisation > fantranslation stands anyway, so we'd never use shining victory dragon, because it's a fantranslation). To illustrate the point, I've seen anime where people speak in english in the japanese version, but when its dubbed, their lines get changed. Why? Because they were not using a translation, and didn't take into account, for instance, grammar, or how silly the lines sounded. Now I'm sure people will be quick to point out that Legacy doesn't take grammar into account, which is true, but in the absence of any other official translation, there is no way to correct their translation (excluding the #1 errors, which are obvious), without using subjective arguments. Those last four words are my whole reason for making this argument. Slax01 00:03, June 9, 2010 (UTC) : I agree with Slax. (Zoids Fanatic 00:35, June 9, 2010 (UTC)) @Slax01: Ohhhh... Alright, I'm pretty sure I understand now. Thank you for explaining it to me. It makes sense, and I see your argument. Sorry to make such a fuss in the first place--I clearly failed to recognize all of this. I've also seen characters speak English in the Japanese version--then the line is changed. Or something is changed to fit context/make sense in the vernacular. So name priority looks would be: English Translation > Romanization > Fantranslation? Fantranslations should be used only as a last result (If a name never even was romanized and remained in characters, I guess?) with official English translations receiving greatest priority. It is an English site, after all. Now, the last bit is vital... I'm pretty sure I agree. By now, I suppose it's been made clear that we are to use the English names in official media, which makes sense: in the video-games department, I think there are three English games that are up for use concerning names: Legacy, Battle Legends, and Assault (which hasn't been discussed yet, though to my knowledge, it's the most recent English game). Readdressing the Fury, I've been told that the Zoid did appear in Battle Legends under the same name as Legacy. (That was "Strum Fury.") Maybe we can compile a list of all the acceptable media we can use to pull names from..? There's the English printed manga as well, though that only helps with Chaotic Century. -Imperial Dragon 11:48, June 9, 2010 (UTC)